Times Radio interview with David Greenhalgh – Bullying in the Workplace

David Greenhalgh and Stig Abel on Times Radio discussing Bullying in the Workplace 

SA: Inappropriate behaviour at work.

The resignation of Gavin Williamson after it emerged, he’d sent offensive text messages to colleagues, has prompted all sorts of questions about how we treat each other in the workplace, not only in politics, but across all industries.

Let’s talk to David Greenhouse, he’s an expert in employment law at Xcelo Law.

Good morning, David.

DG: Good morning.

SA: Fingernails in the office cutting them, is that acceptable or not, do you think?

DG: Not in my opinion, no.

And hopefully employers will have policies which will kind of outline what behaviours are expected.

Managers need to be able to intervene and perhaps that should be being done in the bathroom at home.

SA: Good point.

Now, is there a change?

Is there, on a serious point, I’m really interested about the Gavin Williamson thing, because at one level, some of his things were things he said were just crass, they were stupid.

His text messaging, for example, wasn’t to a subordinate, it was to someone technically more senior than him.

And yet the word bullying has been used.

Are we sort of hyper conscious about bullying in the workplace?

And has that changed over the last few years?

DG: I’m not sure it’s changed.

I mean, there’s definitely more awareness of behaviour because of what’s in the news at the moment.

I mean, there’s no legal definition of bullying, so it’s hard to pin it down.

But clearly, some of the things reported, if they’re true, you know, could be offending other people in the workplace, could be intimidating people.

And if this behaviour is, you know, if somebody is being treated less favourably, because of something that’s protected by discrimination, or of course, there could also be discrimination.

I don’t think there’s been no change in the law.

But I think there’s more awareness of behaviours in the workplace and what’s tolerable and what’s not and making a safe workplace.

There should be a safe workplace.

SA: What’s the threshold?

Because I think discrimination, we can all understand if someone is being wrongfully treated based on a protected characteristic, we can all understand that as discrimination.

But what’s the threshold for something being unpleasant?

If someone is swearing, is sort of being tough talking like Gavin Williamson, what threshold is that supposed to cross?

Is it safety?

Because it feels like safety is a very, very high threshold.

DG: Well, to me, a safe workplace is one way you should be able to get on with your job without feeling offended or intimidated.

And if the behaviour caches the employment relationship, because that whole trust and confidence in your employer to protect you in the workplace is gone, then you hit a threshold potentially, which would be breach of your employment contract.

And in that kind of situation, an employee can potentially, you know, walk and say, you know, I’m leaving in response to your breach.

And if they’ve got over two years, they could potentially bring a claim from fair dismissal or discrimination if that’s in the background as well.

SA: And do you think that behaviour has got better or worse over time?

You said the law hasn’t changed.

I wonder whether there is an argument by some people that we’ve all got a bit soft.

We’ve all got a bit, they’ll use phrases like snowflakey.

And, you know, as soon as someone says anything that’s in any way edgy, everyone rolls over and panics about it.

What do you leave inside the fact that the law is faced the same?

How’s our tolerance changed?

Do you think?

DG: I think our tolerance perhaps is changing and perhaps employees are more prepared if they feel safe in doing so to stand up and to call out this kind of behaviour.

But I think the question is more about is somebody doing a job well in the workplace?

Is it just about delivery of votes or of sales, for example?

Or is it good delivery based on the values of the organisation?

That to me is the key thing.

For somebody to be doing a job well, they’ve got to deliver, but they’ve got to do it within the values of the organisation.

Otherwise they’re not doing the job well and they’re putting the organisation at risk and its employees at risk.

SA: Really interesting stuff David.

Thank you for joining us today.

DG: Thanks.

That’s David Greenhalgh.

He’s an expert in employment law at Excello Law.