David Greenhalgh of Employment Lawyer London was interviewed by Chloe Tilley on Times Radio an hour before Dominic Raab resigned following the report by Adam Tolley KC on bullying allegations.
Interesting questions about whether the identity of the complainants should have been shared with Mr Raab and what happens to the complainants if Mr Raab remains in role.
David thought it is reasonable for the PM to take his time considering the report which has taken 5 months to complete. Innocent unless proven guilty.
No smoke without fire? What if there are findings of bullying but no action is taken? Would employees who have been brave enough to come forward need protection in this situation? How would HR manage the situation where there are no findings of bullying?
Where complaints of discrimination, harassment or whistleblowing are made employees have legal protection if they are treated badly as a result. Where the complaint made is one of bullying against that individual and it is not related to discrimination, that same legal protection does not apply.
Changes to the culture of an organisation come from the top. The goal should be the creation of a safe workplace where staff feel empowered to call out unacceptable behaviours and that such complaints will be fully investigated and action taken where appropriate.
CT: Chloe Tilley, Times Radio
DG: David Greenhalgh, Employment Lawyer London
CT: Now to David Greenhalgh who is an employment lawyer at Excello Law.
Good morning.
DG: Good morning.
CT: Can you understand why it’s taking, I mean not so long, but a while for Rishi Sunak to look at this report and make a decision?
DG: Yes, I mean obviously as you said the report’s taken an awful long time to put together.
Lots of people have been interviewed and you know as an employer they’ve got to make a fair decision and give it proper consideration and I don’t, you know, a couple of days to me would not be unreasonable in that but you have to put yourself in the shoes.
If you were the person who was accused of the allegations you would want your employer to give it proper consideration before making a decision.
CT: And you also think it’s right that Dominic Raab has seen a copy of this report including the names of the people who’ve made complaints against him?
DG: Normally, in the normal context of employment you wouldn’t normally do that.
The report would be either summarised or the person accused would be given a summary or names of the individuals who made complaints would be kept out, they’d be redacted and to try and protect them.
Also it all depends what reassurances they were given at the time they came forward, you know, was their confidentiality somehow guaranteed?
What promises made?
And obviously if there are findings of bullying and there is breach in the ministerial code and Mr Raab remains in place, obviously an employee in that situation may well have, you know, concerns about their future.
CT: Absolutely and that’s why I was wondering if you think it was a mistake to actually put those names in the report that Dominic Raab saw?
DG: It all depends on how the law operates under the ministerial code and how the reporting works.
Under normal employment law you’d be very careful to protect people’s personal data, their identities and the data protection etc.
CT: If once Rishi Sunak has considered this report by Adam Tolley KC and Dominic Raab is found to have done nothing wrong, even so it’s going to be very difficult for people to continue to work alongside Dominic Raab in the Ministry of Justice with both sides knowing that they’ve put a complaint in.
DG: Yes and you know there obviously have to be a lot of hard work by HR to try and work out how to deal with that, I agree it would be a very tricky situation.
CT: Also when, I mean we’re reading in the Times today that Dominic Raab is saying that he’s confident, that he’s done nothing wrong, he’s obviously read this report, he’s confident that he will be exonerated.
Legally where does Dominic Raab stand in challenging things in this report?
I mean we know don’t we from the Declaration of Interests earlier this week that he’s funded his own legal expenses but can he challenge what’s in this report?
DG: Ordinarily what happens is the employer would consider the report, an investigation takes place, the decision maker makes the decision, the decision is communicated so if the decision is for example dismissal under normal employment law and the employee gets a chance to appeal that would be the situation but you know it may be different under the ministerial code.
CT: Good to speak to you this morning, thank you for your time.
DG: Thanks Chloe.
That is David Greenhalgh, he is an employment lawyer at Excello Law.
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